[lemniscus 1]

The irony grows funnier that they allied themselves with Erusea, who only a few years later will invade them and make it a base for their infamous Yellow Squadron and make it a line of defense for Stonehenge and Erusea itself. I suppose the saying is true, "Friend's one day, enemies the next" lol.

[Mr. P]

Fascists, always stabbing you in the back...

Btw, good work on that political map.

[drgreen19]

Wait. So according AC: AH Legacy, were the southern states wanting to join Osea, or simply enter an alliance, and leave the FCU/USEA?

[viperzerof-2]

see thats what I want to know but it seems they are not part of osea in ace combat 04 and 5

[lemniscus 1]

My personal guess is that after the "1st Usean Continental War" since that's what AC: AH Legacy seems to want us to call the Usean Coup de etat, the USEA Government made a settlement with all involved parties (Osea, Pro-Cessesstion, Anti-Cessesstion, loyal USEA members etc) and agreed to a set of terms everyone could live with. Osea backed out of the "Spring Sea Treaty" and aborted their plan to absorb south Usea into the Osean Federation, and the USEA government gave privileges and rights to all member nations so that everyone would be pacified and content. That... and the oncoming Ulysses probably forced all involved parties to come to a decision fast before that monster hit.

[drgreen19]

There was a theory a while ago, on how the Nagase appearance in AC04 could be canonical, if they later defected to Osea. In the mission briefing, ISAF allowed clearance for the developers of Stonehenge to seek refuge in an ISAF-allied state. Judging from how the ISAF was formed from the USEA/FCU, it is very well possible the Oseans provided some sort of logistical assistance to the ISAF in the 2003-2005 Usean Continental War (There is also a refueling craft with the Osean emblem in Operation Katina, as well.). What I don't get is how the continuity would still piece together when Erusea really is the winner from the Coup d'etat, in the sense the USEA/FCU were in chaos from the conflict which sprung up in the Central Usea, as a result of Stonehenge's construction?


By the way, in AC: AHL, are you supporting the Pro-Osean side, or the "Red" states?

[lemniscus 1]

In AC: AHL, I believe you're in support of the "red states" because Twinkle Island is in Erusian Territory. The difference between "Red" and rebel states is simply extremist and moderates. The Moderates opposed the cessation but wouldn't rebel against the USEA Government, the extremists however had no qualms with abandoning the government to take it over. However, if the player isn't supporting the "Red" States, then most likely you're in support of the grey neutral states because most likely their stance is simply about holding USEA together.

Also, because this game seems to be attempting to fit AC2 into the proper canon of Strangereal better, I would think there's enough evidence to suggest that the south of USEA didn't become a part of Osea after the events of the game. That in turn would mean a remake of AC5 with proper references to the world map to include USEA better in order to show the "State of Spring Osea" or "The State of South Usea" or something like that since Osea has a funny habit of renaming former nations. If Osea did gain possession of Southern Usea, that would mean Namco would have to reconcile both AC04 and AC5 to fix the facts about this. Since they released the "Aces at War" book that included a proper timeline of events, I don't think Namco Bandai would readily make changes so soon after releasing a timeline for Strangereal. AC: AHL didn't alter the canon after all, it expanded it.

[drgreen19]

lemniscus 1, on 07 March 2012 - 10:33 PM, said:

In AC: AHL, I believe you're in support of the "red states" because Twinkle Island is in Erusian Territory. The difference between "Red" and rebel states is simply extremist and moderates. The Moderates opposed the cessation but wouldn't rebel against the USEA Government, the extremists however had no qualms with abandoning the government to take it over. However, if the player isn't supporting the "Red" States, then most likely you're in support of the grey neutral states because most likely their stance is simply about holding USEA together.

Also, because this game seems to be attempting to fit AC2 into the proper canon of Strangereal better, I would think there's enough evidence to suggest that the south of USEA didn't become a part of Osea after the events of the game. That in turn would mean a remake of AC5 with proper references to the world map to include USEA better in order to show the "State of Spring Osea" or "The State of South Usea" or something like that since Osea has a funny habit of renaming former nations. If Osea did gain possession of Southern Usea, that would mean Namco would have to reconcile both AC04 and AC5 to fix the facts about this. Since they released the "Aces at War" book that included a proper timeline of events, I don't think Namco Bandai would readily make changes so soon after releasing a timeline for Strangereal. AC: AHL didn't alter the canon after all, it expanded it.

Alright, but I thought the Usean extremists were from all over the continent to avert the ratification of The Spring Sea Treaty? Were there individual states who sought military action to repel the Oseans?

By the way, what the heck made the Southern Usean states want to join Osea anyways? I understand the Post-1995 setting, but the only logical explanation for the Osean treaty would probably be the impending Ulysses collision. The southern states, seeking a way to stabilize their economies would choose to join "The Osean Union" (I coined this term to refer to the Allied Forces from The Belkan War.) so they could retain some sort of insurance during and following the Planetfall. Maybe southern Usea had nascent natural resources as well, which alarmed the Pro-USEA countries, who feared they would lose mining rights as part of an economic agreement, like the EFTA?

[lemniscus 1]

To answer both questions, I think a recap summary of what we know of USEA as of AC: AHL is in order along with some assumptions.

First off, the intro makes it pretty clear that before USEA was formed, there was a history of bitter tension between all the individual nations of the Usean continent. The conclusion of the Belkan War brought deep scars in it's wake. Although Yuktobania and Osea finally decided to head towards the path of harmony, the Usean continent grew wary of the two growing superpowers most likely due to how Osea and Yuktobania practically stripped Belka bare of national pride and identity as retribution for it's war along with claiming it's resources for themselves. Due to this distrust and fear, especially fueled by the fact Usea is right between the two continents, the nations of Usea decided it might be wise to unite together to defend themselves against the two growing powers in case one of them decides to seek Usea's resources.

However, you are right to assume that South Usea had nascent resources that the North feared loosing rights too. the Southern Usean nations probably were taken by greed and opportunity being that they held the majority of Usea's resources when Osea offered an military alliance to them (The official Cross Rumble site mentions specifically the South contains the majority of Usea's resources), much like how Belka was suckered into Osea's Great Lakes deal. The Northern and Western nations who depended on South Usea's resources opposed this unification of South Usea and Osea, possibly in part because of greed (Erusea after all was the largest nation to oppose the union and we know Erusea is a major power of Usea and we know the mess Erusea will later cause), and partly because they MIGHT have foreseen the result of this union would mirror what happened with Belka (i.e. Loosing mining rights and an invasive Osean Military presence to quote the game's intro). However, like real political science, since South Usea had the resources, they probably had the influence within the USEA alliance to silence them to allow the union to proceed.

What happened next wasn't so much a north vs. south civil war, but rather conservatives from both sides snapping and taking action. Much like how factions in real life have "Moderates" and "Radicals", the Southern nations probably had their share of Radical conservatives that opposed the union of South Usea and Osea but didn't have enough political power to put a stop to it and so they worked with like minded individuals who were disgusted with the fact USEA couldn't stop South Usea to take matters into their own hands. We can guess with some measure of certainty that these political radicals had friends within the military who shared their opinion to pull off the Coup and coordinated the efforts so that the beginning of the rebellion could be timed perfectly to happen all at once.

The war itself can therefore be seen as this: USEA is taking a opinion like the Union in the civil war, not so much opposing the union of Osea and South Usea much like how the north simply wanted to preserve the union and end the cessations in the beginning, but simply putting an end to a rebellion that could tear the rest of the nation apart. USEA wasn't taking a side, because that would undermine the whole goal of what USEA wanted to do. If they chose to side with the northern nations, they would be supporting the rebels essentially and legitimizing the whole coup. If USEA chose to side with the south, then they would further distance themselves with the Northern nations which would cause everyone living in the Usean continent to become split and divided, creating a whole new series of bitter tension and strife– undoing the hard work it took to unite all the nations into USEA.

As for Ulysses, I don't think the southern nations wanted to join Osea because of Ulysses simply because they have the resources to build Stonehenge. As for that matter, I think Ulysses itself was partly forgotten about because of all the political problems happening in Usea at that time which caused the coordination of the Stonehenge Project (which includes Megalith and Fortress Intolerance) to be shattered till the war ended and coordination to stop the asteroid could resume. It's kinda like any natural disaster. It's made a big deal of at first, then another disaster distracts everyone for awhile and when the smoke of the second incident clears, the first disaster rears it's head again worse then before. That is why I think the Stonehenge project was unsuccessful in stopping Ulysses, because the war distracted everyone, no one tracked the trajectory of the asteroid to warn the continent to adjust it's plans to take into account how the asteroid would hit the world. Hence Ulrich Olsen's statement about Ulysses, "An asteroid that was believed to be set on a collision course" if I remember the quote right. He probably didn't believe the asteroid was going to hit at the time, which was probably the prevailing attitude about Ulysses at the time despite what the IUA had to say about it.... which in turn was probably why no one minded them destroying Fortress Intolerance despite it's initial importance to stop the asteroid.

As for the conclusion of the war, since no mention of South Usea being a member of Osea is made in AC5 (Unless Project ACES releases extra material that confirms South Usea does join Osea, God Forbid), we can assume that USEA remained whole up until the 2nd Usean Continental War where Erusea began it's war with the rest of the Usean Continent.

I hope this might give possible answers to what happened in AC: AHL.

[viperzerof-2]

we do know south Usea has oil from ac 2 and 04 and some type of mineral recourse. I could not find any example however of a nation leaving a confederation or Supranational Union and other states attempting to stop them and we know from ace combat 04 it is not a federation because each member is referred to as a nation and Erusia has its own armed forces  

[drgreen19]

Okay, that summed up a lot of the events in the "1st Usean Continental War", and it seems to be a lot of what was previously suggested as conjecture (AC2) for the events leading up to the Usean Coup' d'etat and the 2003 Usean Continental War has been retconned out of existence.

- It was mentioned on Wikipedia's AC2 page, a theory claiming the rebellion was staged by factions of AWWNB shortly after the end of the Belkan War. AC2's original story was very vague, and its implications towards the rest of the continuity were only theorized after AC04 came out. The hypothesis regarding AWWNB revolves around how similar Ex-Gruender weapons were used (Morgen) and the nature of the insurrection itself. Granted, this has now been mostly, if not completely discarded, but the AWWNB version of events would still tie in to the rest of the Strangereal Timeframe.


Back to the former "Official" story, the Usean Rebellion occurred largely in the states who were involved with Stonehenge. I forget exactly which country the S.T.N. was constructed in, but it was near San Salvacion, but they were one of the countries who opposed The Spring Sea Treaty. In the Ulysses thread a while ago, Megalith and Fortress Intolerance were constructed as bunkers/command posts during the Ulysses Planetfall. Is Fortress Intolerance an ICBM launch facility similar to Megalith? In the Project Aces literature, an ICBM launch platform was proposed as a means to counter the asteroid, but later the S.T.N. was built to deal with the large amount of fragments which would decimate Central Usea after the asteroid crossed the Roche Limit. Your mentioning of how the defence programs against the Planetfall were hampered as a result of the chaos in the USEA, and other documentation states around 1998 or so, the IAU calculations were adjusted, but no one was able to revise Stonehenge's design. A lot of asteroid fragments caused significant damage, even within Stonehenge's effective scope. Farbanti, for example was seriously devastated by the Ulysses collision, and other regions. In accordance with what the previous edition of what happened, if the war had something to do with Stonehenge's construction, Erusean aggression towards other states in the USEA is mentioned in the newspaper article announcing the impending Planetfall. Which year does AC: AHL even take place in? Is it still 1998? Also, I don't think South Usea would have joined Osea in the end either. It would complicate the entire nature of the 2nd Usean Continental War, with Erusea's invasion and ISAF's operations around the Los Canas area, which is located approximately within the "Blue" states.